December 19, 2016


Base Class
Comments from the Finger: The Warden represents the first proper Defense / Control class ever in 5th edition. It excels in not only surviving oncoming hordes of foes, but also in locking down enemies to shelter the party from harm. Like the witch, this class is eventually destined for a wider release, but it comes to you, loyal patron, early.


An immense goblinoid army stretches from the horizon to the castle walls. In the breach, a single knight holds back the horde, eviscerating all comers, and allowing none to pass.
     Blood dripping from his blade, a scarred half orc gets down on all fours and breaks into a sprint, his eyes alight with bestial fury.
     Advancing slowly, an elf brandishing a green scimitar emerges from the foliage before two poachers. Startled, they turn to run, but find their feet bound fast by leaves and vines.
     Wardens are vigilant guardians, and unbreakable defenders of the weak. They are nature’s shield, and the watchers of the realms of men. When the world cries out for a champion, wardens heed the call.

Mighty Guardians
Ever-vigilant, wardens are the staunch defenders of nature and the chosen champions of people. A warden might be selected by his tribe to defend them from their enemies, or be visited by the spirits of a sacred grove and beckoned to watch over the forest. Where a warden is not directly called to defend others, he feels the constant pull to take up a charge of his own, to use his strength as a bastion for the weak.
     Wherever a warden travels, his strength travels with him, and new causes make themselves known. There is never a shortage on those who need protection, for the strong always seem to stand above the weak.

Primal Strength
Wardens are like mighty trees in a gale storm, or the rocks along shore, constantly being battered by waves. Though they may experience extraordinary hardship, a warden cannot be easily moved, and seldom can be broken.
     Wardens draw their extraordinary toughness from the wild itself. They can feel the strength of the earth beneath their feet, the vitality of the air in their lungs, and the fury of the blazing sun overhead. They channel this power intuitively, without ever considering it. Indeed, some wardens believe that their power comes from within, and that nature does nothing to empower them, but even these wardens feel nature’s pull to defend the powerless, take up a cause.

Creating a Warden
When creating a warden, consider what drives your character. What brought you to raise up your shield for others? Do you fight to protect anyone or anywhere in particular? A threat to your homeland, or loved ones, might have been your catalyst, but you also might have risen to combat a menace to the natural world. What was your call, and how do you honor it? What motivates you to keep fighting, even when you’re at death’s door?
     Most wardens have been recognized as exemplary defenders. Perhaps, you are known as a great wandering knight in the northern provinces, or perhaps you were visited by spirits of the forest, which beckoned you to protect them from invaders. Who has called you, and how did you respond?

Quick Build
You can build a warden quickly with these suggestions. First, make Constitution your highest ability score, followed by Strength and Dexterity. Then, choose the Primal Toughness option for Sentinel's Stand.

Level  Proficiency Bonus  Features
Sentinel's Stand, Warden's Mark
Duel, Fighting Style, Warden’s Grasp
Champion’s Call, Warden's Resolve
Ability Score Improvement, Font of Life
Extra Attack
Call feature, Defiant
Sentinel’s Step
Ability Score Improvement
Mark improvement
Ability Score Improvement
Call feature
Grasp improvement
Font of Life improvement
Ability Score Improvement
Resolve improvement
Sentinel’s Soul
Ability Score Improvement
Call feature

Class Features
As a warden, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d10 per warden level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution modifier per warden level after 1st

Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution
Skills: Choose two from Animal Handling, Athletics, Nature, Perception, and Survival.

You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted to you by your background:
  • A shield and any martial weapon
  • (a) chain shirt, (b) leather armor and a spear, or (c) chain mail (if proficient)
  • (a) two light hammers or (b) any simple melee weapon
  • (a) a dungeoneer’s pack or (b) an explorer’s pack

Sentinel’s Stand
Wardens are towers that cannot easily be felled. At 1st level, choose one of the following features.
     Armor Proficiency. You gain proficiency with heavy armor.
     Primal Toughness. Your hit point maximum increases by 1 + your Constitution modifier, and it increases by 1 every time you gain a level in this class.
     Stalwart Spirit. You gain proficiency in one saving throw of your choice.

Warden’s Mark
At 1st level, you can use your bonus action to mark one creature you can see within 30 feet. Whenever you make a weapon attack against a creature you have marked, you gain a +2 bonus on the damage roll. The mark ends if you can no longer see the marked creature, if the marked creature dies, or if you use your bonus action to mark a different creature.
     At 11th level, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn, you can make an additional attack against a creature you have marked.

At 2nd level, as a bonus action once per turn, when you make a melee weapon attack against a creature you have marked, you can compel it into a duel. Until the beginning of your next turn, while that creature is marked, it has disadvantage on attack rolls against any creature other than you.

Fighting Style
At 2nd level, you adopt a style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options. You can’t take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose again.
     Crippling. When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, its speed is reduced by 10 feet, to a minimum of 0, and it can’t take the Dash action until the end of its turn.
     Great Weapon Fighting. When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
     Protection. When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a weapon or shield.
     Titan Fighting. You gain a +2 bonus to melee weapon attack rolls you make against Large or larger creatures.

Warden’s Grasp
By 2nd level, as a bonus action, you can use the force of your daunting presence to ensnare nearby enemies into combat. Until the beginning of your next turn, you can’t move, and each Large or smaller creature you choose within 5 feet can't willingly move away from you unless it first takes the Disengage action.
     At 14th level, the range of this ability increases to 10 feet.

Champion’s Call
By the time you reach 3rd level, you feel the inexorable pull of an important duty or task that you assume as your own. No outside force compels your choice or enforces your conduct; if you fail in your charge, you alone are responsible.
     Your choice grants you features at 3rd level and again at 6th, 13th, and 20th level.

Warden’s Resolve
Starting at 3rd level, whenever your hit points are less than half your maximum, you have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.
     Starting at 17th level, when your hit points are less than half your maximum, you have resistance to all damage except psychic.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Font of Life
By 4th level, you can use your action to end either one disease or one condition afflicting you. The condition can be blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, or poisoned. You can use this action even if the condition you end would otherwise prevent it. Once you use this ability, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.
     At 15th level, once per day when you use this ability, your hit points are also restored to half your maximum, if they were lower.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

At 6th level, you can draw from a deep well of fortitude to shrug off punishment. As an action, you can gain temporary hit points equal to half your warden level, rounded up, plus your Constitution modifier, which last for 1 minute.
     You can use this ability a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier and regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Sentinel’s Step
Wardens are faultless trackers, which can navigate hazardous terrain with ease. At 7th level, select one of the following features.
     Earthstrength. You possess the might of the earth itself. Your carrying capacity doubles, and you have advantage on ability checks and saving throws against being pushed against your will or knocked prone.
     Thundering Charge. On your first found of combat, your speed increases by 30 feet and you have advantage on the first melee weapon attack you make.
     Wildblood. Your reflexes have been honed by the perils of nature. You can't be surprised while you are conscious. Additionally, you have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores.

At 9th level, when you are reduced to 0 hit points and are not killed outright, you can choose to drop to 1 hit point instead. Once you use this ability, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.

Starting at 10th level, when a creature within 5 feet of you makes a melee weapon attack targeting you, you can use your reaction to punctuate its strikes. The attack against you gains advantage. After that attack, the creature can make no more attacks until the end of its turn.

Sentinel’s Soul
Wardens are unshakable guardians that cannot be bowed. At 18th level, choose one of the following features:
     Ageless Guardian. You are immune to poison and disease, no longer need food or water, suffer none of the frailty of old age, and can’t be aged magically. You can still die of old age, however.
     Additionally, you have advantage on Dexterity saving throws. 
     Eyes of the Mountain. You gain tremorsense with a range of 15 feet, and can detect the presence of hidden or invisible creatures within 30 feet.
     Impenetrable Mind. Your thoughts can’t be read and you can’t be charmed or frightened.
     Additionally, you have advantage on Wisdom saving throws.

Champion’s Call

A warden’s call is a binding charge to protect and defend others from harm. Every warden eventually hears a call, and responds with mighty deeds. In answering this call, they embrace the traits of those they stand to protect, gaining primal, and sometimes even mystical, abilities.

Bloodwrath Guardian

The primal power you wield has formed an intrinsic bond with the creatures of the wild, and you have taken up the task of defending them. Because you share in the beast's ferocity, tenacity, and animal instinct, you can summon a beast’s primal strength from within yourself, and slay your enemies in an animalistic trance. 
     While entranced, you can sense a connection to a greater being, the Primal Beast, the first predator, from which all hunters are descended. As your commitment to defending the wilds from corruption grows, you grow closer to the Primal Beast, until you can at last adopt its ancient form yourself, and allow it to hunt once again.

Feral Trance
Starting at 3rd level, you can fall into a primal battle trance as a bonus action. While in your trance, you gain the following benefits if you aren’t holding a shield or wearing heavy armor:
  • You have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws.
  • Your base movement speed increases by 10 feet. 
  • Once per turn, when you make an attack roll against a creature, you can end your current mark, and mark that creature instead.
  • When an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack's damage against you.
  • Your trance lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven’t attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then. You can also end your trance on your turn as a bonus action.
     Once you use this ability, you can't use it again until you finish a short or long rest.

Predator’s Scent
By 6th level, you hunt like an animal. A creature you have marked remains marked for 24 hours, even if it moves out of your sight and further than 30 feet away. You gain no damage bonus against the creature while it is out of range, but you can track it effortlessly. While this creature is marked, you know the direction of, but not the distance to, the creature.

Beginning at 13th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or an ice storm spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

Form of the Primal Beast
At 20th level, as an action, you can transform into a hunched thing of fur and shadow, an echo of the Primal Beast. For 1 minute, you gain the following features:
  • You gain all the benefits of Feral Trance.
  • You gain temporary HP equal to twice your level.
  • Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can wound the target. At the start of each of the wounded creature's turns, it takes 1d8 necrotic damage for each time you've wounded it, and it can then make a Constitution saving throw (save DC equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier), ending the effect of all such wounds on itself on a success. Alternatively, the wounded creature, or a creature within 5 feet of it, can use an action to make a DC 15 Wisdom (Medicine) check, ending the effect of such wounds on it on a success.
Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest.

Verdant Protector

You draw your strength from the trees of the forest and the loamy earth beneath your feet. As a Verdant Protector, you are the champion of the green things in nature, and defend them against those who would despoil the wilds. You easily find allies among druids, and others that understand the forest’s sacred trees and ancient spirits.
     At your command, the plants of the earth sprout up to assist you in your duty. At the pinnacle of your power, you can assume the form of an elder tree guardian, which looks much like a treant, with tough, bark skin, and long, branchlike arms.

Green Mark
Starting at 3rd level, when you mark a creature, the plants of the earth come alive to hinder its progress. While this creature is within 30 feet of you, the ground it walks on is difficult terrain.

Verdant Skin
At 6th level, you gain proficiency in the Stealth skill, if you did not have it before. Additionally, you can use your action to draw a thick mass of vines and leaves to conceal you. Until you move, you have advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks you make to hide among vegetation.

At 13th level, your determination allows you to shrug off effects that would otherwise harm you. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Constitution saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

Form of the Oak Sentinel
Starting at 20th level, you can use your action to transform into an oak sentinel, a bark-covered titan of the forest. For 1 minute, you gain the following features:
  • Your AC becomes 20, if it was lower.
  • Your attacks have Reach, if they did not have it before.
  • When you use Warden’s Grasp as a bonus action, you can make an attack against each creature affected, with a separate attack roll for each target.
Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest.

Changelog: 12/19/16: Sentinel's Stand: Primal Toughness: 1 hp per level
Stalwart Spirit: Only 1 saving throw proficiency
Defiant: Temp HP lasts for 1 minute
Duel: Requires a bonus action
12/20/16: Equipment: You can choose chain mail if you are proficient with heavy armor
12/22/16: Feral Trance: Works when you aren’t holding a shield or wearing heavy armor
1/4/17: Interrupt: Triggers when an attack is made targeting you
2/28/17: Defiant: Reduced to Con mod times per rest
Interrupt: The triggering attack against you has advantage
Verdant Skin: +10 replaced with advantage
3/19/17: Quick Build: Background reference removed


    1. Am i the only one who thinks this is way to far on the strong end?

      1. yeah absolutely, proficiency in 4 saving throws? better hp gain per level than a dwarf and hunters mark
        I dont need to read on, that's heavily OP

      2. At level one you can have your constitution twice to your HP+2+hit dice? additionally at second level you and force a creature into a duel, with no save to respond. I feel that this will make the other classes, like the ranger, very lack luster.

      3. It makes pretty much everything lacklustre, at 3rd level you gain serious resistance below half health
        it needs some serious balancing, like a huge amount of cutting

      4. I feel it is worth pointing out, that those choices at first level are mutually exclusive. You either increase you hit die to be on par with a Barbarian, -or- you gain proficiencies in more throws -or- heavy armor. It lets you approach tanking the way you want.
        That said, I like the choices provided. It gives more means to make your Warden that much different than another.

        Gaining resistance to S/B/P at level three is the same as Bear Totem resistance at the same level, except you have to be bloodied first, which I think is a great balance.

        I'm excited to see where this goes for sure.

      5. I understand what is being attempted but the mark is also a bit on the strong side one creature can effectively gets to only attack you and at later levels only gets one attack.

      6. The mark is on par with a barbarian's rage.

        The hp Primal Toughness gives does seem a bit too high.

      7. it's really op. seems like a barbarian on crack

      8. So the principle issues pointed out here seem pretty minor: in Sentinel Stand, giving you two save proficiencies can easily be swapped for only one, and Primal Toughness can be reduced to 1 HP per level.

        Duel can also be nerfed by allowing for a save. That being said, I can also tweak this to require a bonus action, meaning you can can't dual a creature while others are Grasped. Thoughts?

      9. The combination of duel and grasp does seem very powerful, but between the two I think grasp is the one that should allow a saving throw.

        Also, since the grasp uses "the force of your daunting presence", it should probably not work on creatures that can't be frightened.

      10. The fact the Grasp can be done every round, combined with the fact that it can target multiple enemies, makes me think that it will drag down most games if allowed a saving throw. It's just a lot of dice rolling every turn

      11. Fair point. Than a save on the duel is ok. A use limit on the grasp might also be a good idea (perhaps proficiency bonus/rest).

      12. It might need more playtesting, but with the Duel requiring a bonus action is all it takes to keep things in line.

    2. I find a distinct lack of non combat ribbons for the class. But otherwise the class is great if a little overpowered.

      The fact that a bloodwrath champion can have 5 proficient saving throws at a time is a little much though

      1. I had a hand in creating this, and let me tell you, the ribbons were by far the hardest part. We worked very hard to balance this as best we can, so if you see something unbalanced, please let the finger know so it can be changed.

        Additionally, monks are proficient in all saves. Its not unprecedented.

      2. Not unprecedented, no, but they don't get that till 14th level, so it's worth looking at again.

        Here's my concern: the way the feature currently is, we are equating getting 2 saving throw proficiencies (worth about 1 1/2 feats) with Heavy Armor Proficiency (worth about 1/2 a feat).

        My suggestion: Wardens should only get light armor proficiency, and Med/Heavy/Shields should come with the ability.

      3. So that's how it /originally/ was when presented on patreon. Playtesting indicated that the Warden felt too squishy when only given light armor - playtesters didn't want to wade into battle and tank enemy attack on 13 AC.

        Saving throws are an easy tweak - I can swap out Stalwart Spirit for something else, or cut it to one proficiency.

      4. Yea I agree with the lack of non combat ribbons

      5. I'll have to get in one at 1st level. We actually had a few that we cut in the production process to make room for things like Duel, which makes the class much more fun to play

      6. While I personally think that this class is good to go I do have a few suggestion that you good maybe think about:

        Sentinel Stand-Armor Proficiency- Instead of just giving proficiency with heavy armor why not take the HAM feat(reduce S/B/P by 3) and scale it? Maybe at the 14th level make it reduce all damage but psychic.(Also make sure it can't stack with the actual HAM feat)
        Primal Toughness-"Your hit dice are now d12's and your health is now 12+Con Mod(maybe also add something that improves recovery at rest like add half you prof bonus to hit dice health regain?)"
        Stalwart Spirit-"Gain proficiency in 1 saving throw. At 14th lvl gain proficiency in another.

        Warden's Mark-Maybe limit it to Con Mod per either short or long rest and make it unlimited at lvl 2o(like barb rage)

        Duel/Fighting Style-:)

        Warden's Grasp-Limit just like Mark? I think this one should be unlimited. Give creatures who are immune to being frightened immunity to this because "daunting presence"

        Warden’s Resolve- This feature has to stay it's what makes the class as good of a tank or a better one than barbarian.

        Font of Life-:)

        Defiant- Is this unlimited? Is there a limit to how much temporary hit points you can get(I'm assuming what it gives you is the max)? Can you do this whenever you want(like right before anything sketchy or being a trap sponge) The world will never know. Otherwise I love this ability.

        Sentinel Step- Basically bear totem, variant charger feat and variant observant/alert feat. I'm not good at evaluating these kinds of abilities so I assume it's good.

        Undying-Similar or half orc feat(can they stack?) but I like it

        Interrupt- Strong feature this might be the reason why this a little op but I personally like it. I don't really know how to make it weaker

        Sentinel soul- Meh I think it's pretty good again I'm not good at evaluating these.

        Feral Trance- Just like rage which I like but only once per short rest also if you plan on making the mark limited like previously recommended you might want to make the switch mark thing free or change it into something else

        Predator’s Scent/Evasion-:)

        Form of the Primal Beast-Good ability although somewhat sub par to barbarian(which is no doubt strong). This being weaker is why I think the class is already good.

        Green Mark-:)

        Verdant Skin- This doesn't seem like it'll work anywhere other than a forest. It's just better than hide in plain sight which is a terrible ability

        Mettle-I really can't think of any Con saving throws for half damage these things are usually nasty effects. Not sure how to change it would recommend Evasion but the other archetype already has that.

        Form of the Oak Sentinel- Since this archetype doesn't have a feral stance type thing already I feel like this isn't so good. Maybe AC 25 for super tanky or immunity to nonmagical S/B/P

        All of these are just suggestions so feel free to disregard and as a player I might be trying to make this op i don't know.

        Also will these be the only two archetypes or is this like a rough draft that you're shpowing us like you did with warmage

      7. I am a friend of the Finger. We are playtesting the Warden along side a few other classes tonight. I'm sure the Finger will keep you all posted as to tweaks he feels are necessary.

      8. And just a little bit more on the Sentinel stand you could also throw in or replace something with some kind of unarmored defense type of thing or maybe like "you can add your Con Mod instead of your Dex mod for armor. Other than that you could make all three similar by doing
        -Add half your prof bonus, rounded down, to your AC(or just 2)
        -At the end of each long rest gain half prof bonus x Warden level in temporary hp(or twice level in temp hp)
        -Add half prof bonus to saving throws(in addition to your regular prof bonus?) and again(or just 2)

      9. You know, we had some options in earlier drafts which looked a lot like these suggestions for Sentinel's Stand. We had Unarmored Defense from the barbarian as an option, and another one that provided a small amount of temp HP each time you rolled initiative. This second option might make a comeback later on in an archetype, but we cut Unarmored Defense because it ended up being the clear choice for players that wanted to make an unkillable tank (since you can optimize Con and get a ton of HP and AC, without having to choose).

      10. why not make is something much less like the con for dex on AC like I mentioned or maybe add your con to your AC when you take the dodge action? Either way I already like the three options you have so I'm in no big rush to change it and as for the temp hp on initiative, it's a good idea and one I prefer over the extra regular hp because it doesn't need to be healed so that's fewer hit dice or spell slots spent.

    3. I accidentally replied to a comment instead of to the whole thing so please check the comment above for what I recommend as changes.

    4. I think it needs a "civilized" subclass. Both of the subclasses are very druid/rangery. I think something noble or knightly might be appropriate too--That's something I definitely think of when I think of wardens. Conversely, maybe something vikingy? Like the Warlord from for Honor--an emphasis on counter attacking, maybe?

      1. Check out the unearthed arcana Knight for that:
        It focuses mostly on attacks of opportunity and is not well-balanced, but it captures the concept quite well.

      2. Believe it or not, I only read the Knight today (I'm a little behind on my Unearthed Arcana) and boy is that thing broken. Most of the Mark mechanics are basically the same here, so I probably don't need to make it cost a save. Limiting it to a bonus action is important to keeping things sane at the table, though.

      3. Also, we do have a civilized subclass in mind - specifically one using maneuvers.

      4. Is the Stormwarden still a concept as well?

      5. Yup. I try to release classes with only two archetypes nowadays, since it makes them easier to digest and playtest,but that's still on the todo list.

      6. any idea on when we might see that archetype hit the site? I'd be glad to provide playtest feedback on it, if given the chance.

      7. I know for sure I'll have them ready for the eventual Complete Warden on patreon (becuase of course we're doing a Complete book). I'd like to get plenty of playtesting with the base class before we start expanding the archetypes too much. Now that it's open to the public, I can sit back and listen to people's experiences playing it, and hopefully get started on them within a month or two.

    5. Personally, the biggest issue with this new version is the abundance of saving throw proficiencies.

      May i suggest to limit Stalwart Spirit to be chosen between WIS or CHA ?

      1. It's been shrunk down to one saving throw proficiency. This still means you can grab Dexterity or Wisdom, so you can have two of the three big ones, but you're giving up on some other pretty big benefits, so I think it's a good trade.

    6. I think the warden's armor starting equipment line should have an option like the cleric's, which gives them chain mail if they start proficient in heavy armor at level 1.

    7. I really like this. This is the kind of stalwart battlefield defender i wanted my character to be, and i am going to ask to re-spec from paladin into this. no magic, no holy bulls***t, and a real ability to keep the enemy focused on you. I Love it, and I would LOVE to see more.

      Only one bit of input and it is that "defiant" seems a bit too unrestricted, with how many times you can use it. not sure if it will be an issue though, since it takes an action to do so.

      1. So far, Defiant has been very moderate in playtesting. We added a one-time minute duration to the temporary hit points, so that a player that doesn't use this ability constantly doesn't get it for free at the beginning of combat. As it stands, however, it's more like a variant of the Dodge action, which a Warden is only going to take if they anticipate getting hit and also chooses not to attack.

        I'll look into the starting armor proficiencies.

    8. I like the way feral trance replicates rage in a way but i think it is too restricting. The reason why rage works so well with babra best withought wearing any armor while forcing the warden into light armor I think makes it MAD.

      1. I think I was blind typing that reading it hurts my eyes but my point basically was why allow a class medium and heavy armor when the main feature of one of the archetypes is restricted to light armor. At least bump it to medium

      2. Nah, that's a good point -- this should work with Medium armor as well

    9. Good to see you getting a draft out! I was just thinking about this the other day, and was like, "What happened to Warden?"

      Overall, I love the concept of the class. Sadly I don't remember much of the version you let me look at. One of the things I do remember was there is a definite flavor to the class now and I think that is very cool, before I couldn't tell how it stood out from ranger or paladin or the like.

      I can't really criticize much of the main body of it because creating a base class IS hard. I created one over on my blog and with every feature I wrote I said, "I should give up. I'm a bad person, I am a bad DM, I'm a bad creator, I should stop." Haha. So I won't criticize implementation much. I think my only concern is that there are a lot of ways to gain advantage in a plethora of saving throws which I think is a little rough. I might recommend an implementation similar to Aura of Protection for Paladin. Maybe by tacking on the Constitution modifier in those places. In the design aspect I tend to work from, I try to say what is more powerful a second chance or a static bonus no greater than +5? That logic comes from saying, if you roll the average of of a d20 (10.5) you are met with an automatic 15.5 in best case scenario, then with even a single positive bonus you work with at least a 16.5 on saving throws. Same is true for Paladin AND their allies. Just a thought.

      1. Hey Derek!

        You've got some great gaming instincts, and I've been hearing a lot of sentiments about this class's saving throws being too powerful, so let's dig into this a little more deeply.

        The intent here isn't to have excellent saving throws, like the paladin has. Rather, it's to have better than average saves, and the ability to sometimes get out of the consequences of a bad save (Font of Life / Evasion or Mettle).

        The base class gives you Strength and Constitution, while Stalwart Spirit gives you any one save of your choice. That being said, picking this is the equivalent of giving up 1 or 2 AC, so I think on its own, it's balanced through proxy to the other choices.

        Sentinel's Soul (at 18th level) can give you advantage with Dexterity or Wisdom. Is this where you think I should replace the effect with +Con mod to the save? I think I see the logic here, but Advantage on average gives about +5, so I'm not convinced it's necessarily more balanced.

      2. So in order we have the base saving throws, like you said Strength and Constitution.

        An extra potential saving throw proficiency at level 1. I would assume one of the next ones someone would pick is either Dexterity or Wisdom as those are the next most commonly used saving throws.

        Third level you can get Feral Trance which offers advantage on Strength saving throws.

        The Earthstrength option grants advantage on saving throws against being pushed or knocked prone. Both of which tend to be handled by Strength and Dexterity. This also bolsters a great deal of Athletics and Acrobatics checks.

        13th level, the character receives Evasion or Mettle.

        18th level, they can take ageless guardian, or impenetrable mind.I do have a flavoring issue with ageless guardian, it sounds like their physiology is being made more resistant, but it suddenly offers advantage on a saving throw that is not linked with fortitude.

        So following this progression, a Warden character is likely to pick Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity and choose one path. Or instead of Dexterity, choose Wisdom and take an alternative path. However, what you risk seeing is a character with at best, advantage on Strength saving throws, advantage on Dexterity saving throws, a high resistance to Dexterity save effects, and a general resistance to getting knocked down and pushed around.

        Alternatively, you are seeing a character who has a good base resistance to Strength and Constitution, mid-game, is extra resistant Constitution saving throw effects, and later has advantage on one of the main ability scores DMs target to cripple martially powerful characters.

        Compare this however, to the monk who becomes proficient in all saving throws, and previously as I said the paladin. For these guys a bad roll can still be a bad roll or just barely a success. With advantage, yes there is an average improvement, but it is still a possibility of a huge fluctuation of success. I might recommend that perhaps an implementation somewhere, where you add half your proficiency bonus to saves you are not proficient with. Like Jack of All Trades does for bard skills. Or perhaps, Stalwart spirit (and I think I saw someone else mention this) offers a mental saving throw rather than any. Keep in mind, that the equivalent of an ability score improvement can go into +1 to an ability score and a saving throw.(feat that grants saving throw) If we use that logic, we see that a saving throw is worth exactly half an ability score improvement. So Stalwart spirit isn't bad, but eliminating Dexterity from the options will keep it from getting, like rogue or ranger, too powerful with evasion, and not over the top if they gain advantage in the dexterity saving throw.

        That is what I would consider.

    10. Clarification request on a couple of things:
      Grasp, does it reduce enemy's movement to 0 or act like a reverse fear? As in, if they're prone and grasped, can they stand up?
      Thundering charge, advantage on first attack you make at all, or only in first round? As in, I'm surprised, no attack that round, does it apply next round when I make my first attack?

      1. Grasp: Like reverse fear, the target can't willingly move away from you, even though they can move around you or closer to you (if possible).

        Thundering Charge: Advantage on the first attack you make on your first turn in combat. If you're surprised, you lose this advantage (you can't charge in if you're caught on the backfoot)

      2. Oh hey and can they teleport away from you if grasped? Like misty step or whatever?

    11. After some playtesting with my group, we decided to apply these changes to the class. I would like to share them with you; whether you like it or not, any comment will be gladly accepted :)

      Sentinel's Stand
      -Stalwart Spirit is replaced with these features;
      --proficiency on Charisma saving throws
      --any charmed or frightened condition has its duration halved on you

      Warden's Mark
      -Damage is equal to half proficiency modifier (starts as one, scales up)
      -at 11th level, you have +2 on attack rolls against marked creatures (this is cumulative with fighter style ; Titan Fighting)

      -the trigger conditions changes to "when you hit a marked creature"

      Warden's Grasp is rewritten as below;
      -as a bonus action, you plant yourself in place, standing with towering presence. Until the beginning of your next turn you can't move, you have advantage on all opportunity attacks, and you have a number of additional reactions equal to half your proficiency level. this additional reactions are usable only of opportunity attacks. these additional reactions are valid until the beginning of your next turn.

      Warden's Resolve is changed as below;
      -when hit points are less than half, you reduce any damage taken by your proficiency modifier. this form of reduction does not stack with other damage reductions.
      -at 17th level, you add your Constitution modifier to this damage reduction

      Font of Life is changed as below;
      -at 15th level, when you use this feature, you regain hit point equal to 1d10 + your warden levels.

      -you have advantage on checks and saving throws made to resist being restrained or compelled.
      (we felt that Defiant was too strong and subject to meta, so we decided to change it into a ribbon)

      -any "1" rolled on Death Saving Throws becomes a natural 20
      (same as before)

      We're currently working on a third Champion's Call (Ancestors' Chosen) , with spectral ghost of your dead relatives flooding the battlefield as you call them for help

      1. I'll dig into these more a little later, but the choices you went with weren't entirely surprising -- we tried and eliminated some of these choices in earlier drafts. I'll let you know our initial thoughts on why we didn't make these particular decisions in the first place.

        Warden's Mark: I think you'll find that removing the Extra Attack at 11th and starting at only +1 damage will leave the Warden feeling toothless.

        Warden's Grasp: We didn't intend this to be a feature which allowed you to gain lots and lots of additional opportunity attacks -- this class starts looking insane when you can pull off 4 or more attack in a round due to Opportunity Attacks. Rather, this feature is designed to limit your foes' options directly. The way this feature works is key to thinking about the class -- it's battlefield control.

        Duel: We found this was really too powerful if it wasn't bonus action limited. Without it competing for your bonus action, you can Grasp freely every round, which by extension makes /both/ of these passive features, since the warden has no other significant bonus action features. This also means you can Mark and Duel on your first turn, even before your enemy has taken a turn in combat. Because Duel is such a potent debuff, we felt it would feel more deserved if it weren't automatic.

        Resolve: We wanted to stay away from the damage reduction idea here as much as we could, since it had a tendency to only barely effect larger enemies, while making you literally immune to smaller ones. Lastly, damage reduction isn't really the preferred way that 5e uses to mitigate damage.

        Defiant: Why did you think this is too powerful? Because temporary hit points don't stack, this feature basically replaces the typical Dodge action with a direct form of damage mitigation. Plus, it requires the warden to give up his action to pull it off. By contrast, your current form of Resolve is far more powerful, since it doesn't require the Warden to use his action and it applies against any number of attacks that the warden can take during his turn, whereas Defiant only reduces a set amount of incoming damage.

        Unfortunately, a lot of the changes you made affect the action economy of this class in ways that are pretty hard to predict for. Your version might even be balanced, but it's substantially different from the version of display here and doesn't offer me much of a point of comparison.

    12. Interesting class. And while I really love where you're going with this, even if I am somewhat disappointed about the lack of ribbons (which could still be a cool thing), I'm having issues with two particular abilities right now, and for the same reason: Predator's Scent and Interrupt. Both of them don't require any check or save. In the first case, it's as good as a Ranger's Hunter's Mark or Favored Enemy feature (and sort of Primal Sense, I guess), except it always lasts for a full day and you don't have advantage: you just do it. This, I feel, will ruin any fun for the ranger in the group when he sees something like that happens. He IS also attuned to nature and a natural predator and he doesn't get that good himself. As a DM, though, I mostly worry about Interrupt against big monsters. This could make some enemies whose main advantage is to have a lot of standard attacks pretty useless and, again, all that without a save or a check. Which is not to say I don't like the ability. And I don't think it's going to be a problem in most cases. But it will be quite frustrating to get insta-blocked like this against some really powerful enemies. For example, a Roper has a lot of attacks but really nothing else to offer. And, asides from the mechanics, I have a hard time seeing how I'd narrate this, too, asides from a "insta-block" just happened since, technically, the Warden hasn't tried anything. It just happened. I know you playtest everything, but I'm wondering what's your input about this particular one. I hadn't seen it talked about much in my quick review of the comments above. Either you can go with "after that attack, that creature has disadvantage on all its other attacks" and this wouldn't contradict the Protection fighting style either as it can be used for the first attack which still can't be blocked. Or maybe you offer to only block one, but insta-block. It's also possible to ask for a save or a check, or even make it a limited use ability (which, in flavour, can still be explained as a burst of attacks and parries in the same way action surge is).

      1. Predator's Scent: Remember that this ability only applies to creatures you have marked. This means that you have to have been within 30 feet of your target, and hit it with a mark, /and/ the target needs to have escaped.

        A ranger will have more information when he tracks his quarry (this person was here this long ago and was traveling with this many people) and can efficiently track targets he hasn't recently seen. I wouldn't say this ability removes the ranger's contributions at all.

        Interrupt: This comes online at effectively third tier of play, and it's intended to be pretty powerful. We're still playtesting this feature, but it so far hasn't completely shut down any encounters. If we need to nerf this, the first change we'll try is to make it trigger only when the monster attacks the warden, which gives the monster the ability to 'opt-out' of losing its attacksby targeting the rest of the party.

        The idea is that the warden can use Grasp to lock down groups, Interrupt to shut down individual problem targets, Duel to pull agrro, and Resolve to tank damage. If any of these elements are removed, the warden begins to fail in his 'Control Class' niche.

        In this case, Interrupt is essentially the high-level companion for Duel. Duel only functions to aggro a single target at a time and at higher levels, multiattack is simply too risky to pull aggro, so the warden is useless (in a crowd control sense) against all enemies except for groups that are advantageous to Grasp. Imagine a warden dueling a dragon to keep the party safe and being completely killed in one round. Interrupt is included to prevent that event.

        If we do change this, I'm leaning away from using saving throws, since I don't want this class to slow things down at the table too much. As it stands right now, this are very fluid in play, even when using crowd control options like Grasp, so I don't want to risk messing with that too much.

      2. PS: I did go ahead and implement that little change to Interrupt: that the attack needs to target the warden to be interrupted. This'll probably require some playtesting.

    13. Hope you still want some feedback, I havn't had the option to play him much, but my warden reached level 4.

      * I regret not having a higher Con-Mod at level 1, when I started. Primal Toughness just doesn't feel right reflecting on your Constitution from 1st level and never being able to use a higher Con-Mod later on. I think this still needs some attention.

      * I'm in favor of the idea to make Duel scale somehow.
      * I miss the Archery fighting style.
      * I'd would like if the archetype Verdent Protector would also influence Warden's Mark. e.g. Verdent Protector increases Warden's Mark to 60 ft. range. (Bloodwrath Guardian provides the bonus that while in Feral Trance you can freely Mark your target when attacking someone.
      * Duel already is kinda like compelled duel already. Why not give the Warden the ability to innatly cast that spell equal to his Con-Mod with Constitution as a spellcasting ability?! Maybe just removing the condition that the spell would not end when somebody else attacks.

      1. Hello! I'm always looking for feedback. We're currently playtesting the warden as well, right now.

        I've got some responses and a few questions, if you don't mind.

        Primal Toughness is intended to scale if you increase your Con mod at a later level.
        Verdant Protector's buff to mark is Green Mark.
        What do you mean about 'making Duel scale somehow'?

        How does the warden feel when you play it? It it engaging to play?
        Do you feel like you over/undershine any other party member at the table? If so, which ones and in what ways?
        What does the DM think about the class?

    14. This class have an ability that grants it 2 attacks against its marked target at lv 11, but at level 5 it gains the Extra attack feature. Is it redundant or against a marked target you can make 4 attacks?

    15. Was wondering something, in the reply to Timo H you said that Primal Toughness scales if you increase your CON. later. Does that mean every level you get plus 1 hp + CON. modifier or is it as it says? Just a little unclear, I haven't tried the class yet, but was thinking about trying out a Warden. Reminded me a little bit of the Warden from Lord of the Rings: Online.

      1. It increases by 1 + your Con modifier at 1st level and by 1 at every level after. If you later increase your Con mod, you can gain an extra +1 HP, since you would have otherwise gained that bonus at 1st level.